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Group: Administrators Last Login: 8/27/2008 12:13:41 AM Posts: 139, Visits: 701 |
| I'd like to hear some thoughts on if randori is difficult or not, and why or why not. Do you think randori is easier or harder with more people, and why?
Finally, who do you think controls the speed of the randori? Ukes or nage?
*Phil
Enso Aikido Dojo
Burnsville, MN
"Q: If you're rolling along the ocean on a jet ski and the wheels fall off, do you still have enough pancakes to cover a doghouse?
A: Purple, because ice cream has no bones." |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 8/3/2007 11:52:37 AM Posts: 48, Visits: 582 |
| | I think Randori is difficult in the sense that it doesn't give you time to preconcieve your techniques. It takes Aikido down to its raw form. I've found that you really have to let go of the mindset of doing "technique" and instead just do Aikido. Moving, blending, ki, kokyu. Randori really shows how flexible you are, or aren't in your Aikido. The nage should be the one controlling the speed, but often it is the uke that claims that control. It is up to the nage to keep the ukes at the pace they want. Even if someone throws a fast yokomen at you, as nage you still have the control to blend with that energy at the speed you need to. If the nage is in control from the start (shodo o seisu) he/she can set the pacing of the randori. Usually i feel better in the middle of the randori because for me it takes a bit for me to get the pacing down and start controlling what it going on. I'm barely successful at this most of the time, but it is something I definitely try to work on. I hope that made some sense! 
Faeth  "Be content with what you have. Rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you." |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 4/4/2008 2:42:57 PM Posts: 43, Visits: 149 |
| I would agree with Faith on everything, but the "control" part. Randori is the perfect example showing that the only thing you can be in control of is yourself. The timing of attacks and defenses is outside of either uke or nage's control but, it is interdependent on them. Nage's only "job" is to blend and find the inherent rhythm that is happening, be in the present moment, and handle each problem as it arises.
We've all seen randori where they look very disjointed in the beginning and then nage blends and it becomes rhythmic (just like your usual aikido waza).
*Mike
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -Dalai Lama
"If I begin to play with power too casually, it may begin all too casually to play with me." -Nietszche |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 3/13/2008 1:10:38 PM Posts: 95, Visits: 2,443 |
| | Last night was my second sampling of full-speed randori. To date, we've been working on a 75% speed with limited attacks randori to get acclimated. The first time I did it was for my blue belt test. Sure, it was tough then but my brain was already well-scrambled from the test environment, so I didn't come away with an accurate review of it other than it was difficult. The experience last night of taking full-speed randori on with a more calm mind was something I was looking forward to. My conclusion: randori is difficult. Why? It simply feels like there is a ton of stuff going on at the same time. Even if ukes are attacking a little slower, there is still a lot to notice. It is a matter of perception and you (as nage) choosing the proper action with the proper timing. Doesn't help that the proper window of timing is pretty small due to the speed. Phil's training for randori has been first class. I felt very well prepared for getting off the line of incoming attacks, and was fairly comfortable there. Of course, I didn't execute properly a couple of times which was my own damn fault. I caught a glimpse of just how much more there is to learn with regards to applying aikido in a randori setting. Wow, lotta work for me to do there. I do like the realism involved, it really pointed out the difference between our one-on-one practice of individual techniques and full-speed freestyle application. Huge difference. One of the big eye-openers for me were uke's attacks. They weren't the same as we are used to with technique practice. This isn't bad, mind you, it's actually the best thing for me to learn. One of the most credible criticisms other martial artists have of aikido is that in many dojos, the attacks are not realistic which therefore destroy the credibility of the techniques used. A technique must be applicable to a real attack or it's not martial arts, it's dance. I noticed that the instant I made contact with uke, he would tense up. This was probably due to the fact that I was giving energy back to them and not staying relaxed. I also had trouble taking his balance, probably for the same reason. As we know, we shouldn't be fighting this tenseness and I felt this was the obstacle that got in my way last night. I'm therefore wondering about the what happens when you get an attacker that has that same strength and tenseness, are you merely left with just getting off the line? Sure you can avoid his (or their) attacks, but you have to accept that sooner or later they will corner you or catch up to you. There's gotta be much more that I am missing. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 8/10/2006 12:19:59 PM Posts: 18, Visits: 84 |
| | In the few randori's I've participated in, I've found more people to be easier to deal with then less. After evaluating my natural inclinations during freestyle randori, I discovered I have a tendency to play one uke off another. The more ukes at my disposal, the more lines of assault I can cut off by simply moving behind the closest attacker. As uke, I find it difficult to attack with two other ukes than just one for the same reason. It doesn't seem very possible to be truly attacked by more than two people simultaneously, there just isn't enough room for everyone to jump in there... well, unless nage allowed themselves to be completely encircled, in which case they deserve it. As far as control of overall speed, I think Uke gets the nod here. Short of gross intimidation or a questionable atemi, there isn't a whole lot Nage can do to slow uke down. Uke cannot be forced to attack faster either. They have the option of setting up camp just outside maia all day long if they really want to.
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 3/13/2008 1:10:38 PM Posts: 95, Visits: 2,443 |
| | As I am reviewing my experience, I've come to this basic conclusion: My kuzushi sucked. Getting off the line went pretty well, although I did get outmaneuvered a few times. My shodo o seizu was hit and miss. The difference between success and failure felt like a timing issue. I wonder, does it seem to more senior aikidoka that achieving kuzushi is the most difficult part of randori? |
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Group: Administrators Last Login: 8/27/2008 12:13:41 AM Posts: 139, Visits: 701 |
| It's like a painting... it is different depending on the day you're having, mood, fatigue, etc. That's why painting and aikido are both "Arts". Not much room for analysis. Football is similar: you can analyze to your heart's desire, but something always changes.
There must be, then, some different reason for practicing randori. In the absence of finding the "perfect training method", why on earth would we even bother?

*Phil
Enso Aikido Dojo
Burnsville, MN
"Q: If you're rolling along the ocean on a jet ski and the wheels fall off, do you still have enough pancakes to cover a doghouse?
A: Purple, because ice cream has no bones." |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 8/10/2006 12:19:59 PM Posts: 18, Visits: 84 |
| | I can't speak for why "we" would bother, but I can say why "I" like to give it a go. Randori is slowly teaching me to move and respond without concious thought. As previously mentioned, predetermined responses are horribly, HORRIBLY ineffective. For about 10 seconds during my last randori, (alright, maybe 7 seconds) I wasn't thinking about where and how I was going to move. I just did. I like that. I like that A LOT. Being free from predetermined movements imposed by my own approach to Aikido as a whole is extremely enlightening. [MANDATORY ANALOGY] I played percussion for a little over a decade. I remember the first "real" instructor I studied with. I had already been playing for five years, one year competitively. With all his credentials and accolades, I thought for sure I would be a master drummer in two classes. I was a bit baffled when the entire first MONTH focused purely on how to hold a pair of sticks. In any event, after much practice with focused drills ranging from basic rudiments (think aiki taiso for drums), ambidextrous patterns and timing exercises, something clicked. I was playing in the jazz band for my school at the time, and I started realizing after a while that I had no predisposition to how I was going to approach a certain chart, or even a specific measure until I got there. I no longer knew exactly what I was going to play until I was RIGHT THERE. Improv truly became improv. It happened because of the 1-1 time I had with each technique that I was stringing together. Randori seems to have the same effect. From studying the most basic of movements (stand up, relax), to complicated patterns (iriminage) comes the ability to select and apply technique as a flowing artform instead of an individual skill. Man, I can't wait until I figure out how to hold the sticks properly in Aikido... [/MANDATORY ANALOGY]
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